Hand Saw Sharpening

[grepper]

Elden,

Do you have the Foley 387?  I almost purchased one just because I thought it was so cool!  I had dreams of refurbishing one.  But then, sadly, sanity prevailed.  It's a big heavy piece of machinery and I don't really have much use for it.  But still, I wish I could talk myself into it.

How cool is this?  Why is it not green?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=siCGlyNBSvU

[Rob]

She's a beauty alright. I think maybe the saw is older than the machine :-)

[Elden]

Mark,
Yes, I do still have one (used to have two of them). Also have the retoother. It stamps out new teeth if the old ones become brittle and are breaking off when setting. Used to have a manual trip setter for handsaws but it went with the other machine.
The 387 will also file certain types of steel circular saw blades. They are a work horse.
Don't know what model the you tube machine is, it was made before the 387. If you notice, they were filing straight across (90 degreee). That would have been a rip saw.

[RobinW]

As the snow is down again and it is still too cold for me to venture forth to my unheated shed, I have been having a another look at my saws and what Veritas and Lie Nielsen offer.

There was an earlier post or two finding it hard to believe that I could not get a suitable saw doctor. (I also went through the Saw Doctor Association.) However any company I contacted either had stopped doing handsaws, or could not do the tpi, or did not convince me that they had suitable jig, experience or machine to do an accurate job.

I must say that I liked the earlier post linking to the Foley machine video. Looks great on big panel saws, but does it do small hand saws? Every shed should have one! Surely the current saw manufacturers use something similar.

I have previously tried sharpening a couple of saws, as some other posts have suggested, but I have enough keeping plane and chisels up to scratch, so I do not want to spend a load of time going up the saw learning curve. I would prefer to use the tools rather than have a hobby of sharpening!

Regards the type of saws of interest to me, I currently have:-

2 off 10" blades, rip; both with 15tpi;
1 off 14" crosscut; 12tpi
1 off 12" crosscut; 12tpi
1 off 10" crosscut; 16tpi

These are suitable for the type of work I generally get involved with - making or restoring furniture.
As a comparison, Veritas small joinery saws come in 14, 16, and 20 tpi; carcase saws 12 and 14tpi. (vary with rip or crosscut). Lie Nielsen saws range from 10, 12, 14, 16 (vary with name and rip or crosscut); and the progressive which is 16 - 9tpi.

In the current Furniture and Cabinet Making magazine, a Nagatsu-san Japanese saw (handmade, crosscut, dozuki) got a very good review, but costs £163. The teeth arrangement is somewhat unusual, and as it is not induction hardened it can be re-sharpened. Now there's a challenge!

In a nutshell I am no further forward than when I started this post, but I live in hope.

[Elden]

Robin,
May I suggest you download a owner's manual for the Foley-Belsaw 387 automatic saw filer? I think it would answer some questions for you and generate some others.  One site is:

http://vintagemachinery.org/pubs/detail.aspx?id=4380

The filer will utilize various file holders which will hold as small as a double extra slim taper file. That file is used for 13 - 16 TPI. Grant it, a handsaw with 16 TPI will require very careful setup. Saws with larger teeth are more forgiving in regard to setup.

387 filers can sell very cheap on this side, but shipping is horrendous due to the weight and size of the machine. I wouldn't even want to think of overseas!

I believe the saw holder will hold a 10 inch handsaw. It has been too long since I used it to say for sure. I will try to find out.

[nobby1967]

Excellent Nobby. How many saws did you have?

Lol before hard points came out I use to use onsite 8tpi disston, 6tp disston, 8tpi spear jackson superior, 10tpi spear jackson superior, also when timber looked like it just come out of a lake a garden bow saw. A circular saw was a bit of a rare thing on my first building firm I worked for.  plus spear jackson 8" 20tpi dovetail and sandvik 14"tenon 13tpi . Still have those saws and have added to them and resharpened.

[nobby1967]

As the snow is down again and it is still too cold for me to venture forth to my unheated shed, I have been having a another look at my saws and what Veritas and Lie Nielsen offer.

There was an earlier post or two finding it hard to believe that I could not get a suitable saw doctor. (I also went through the Saw Doctor Association.) However any company I contacted either had stopped doing handsaws, or could not do the tpi, or did not convince me that they had suitable jig, experience or machine to do an accurate job.

I must say that I liked the earlier post linking to the Foley machine video. Looks great on big panel saws, but does it do small hand saws? Every shed should have one! Surely the current saw manufacturers use something similar.

I have previously tried sharpening a couple of saws, as some other posts have suggested, but I have enough keeping plane and chisels up to scratch, so I do not want to spend a load of time going up the saw learning curve. I would prefer to use the tools rather than have a hobby of sharpening!

Regards the type of saws of interest to me, I currently have:-

2 off 10" blades, rip; both with 15tpi;
1 off 14" crosscut; 12tpi
1 off 12" crosscut; 12tpi
1 off 10" crosscut; 16tpi

These are suitable for the type of work I generally get involved with - making or restoring furniture.
As a comparison, Veritas small joinery saws come in 14, 16, and 20 tpi; carcase saws 12 and 14tpi. (vary with rip or crosscut). Lie Nielsen saws range from 10, 12, 14, 16 (vary with name and rip or crosscut); and the progressive which is 16 - 9tpi.

In the current Furniture and Cabinet Making magazine, a Nagatsu-san Japanese saw (handmade, crosscut, dozuki) got a very good review, but costs £163. The teeth arrangement is somewhat unusual, and as it is not induction hardened it can be re-sharpened. Now there's a challenge!

In a nutshell I am no further forward than when I started this post, but I live in hope.

I still cannot believe there are no saw doctors in UK.
The shop I use to take my saws to,
The Hobby Shop
190 Elm Park Avenue
Hornchurch
Essex
RM12 4SH
01708 451150
The saw doctor they used collected saws from shop and returned about a week later. It was many years ago and I do not know if the still do this service.

[Elden]

I must say that I liked the earlier post linking to the Foley machine video. Looks great on big panel saws, but does it do small hand saws? Every shed should have one! Surely the current saw manufacturers use something similar.

2 off 10" blades, rip; both with 15tpi;
1 off 14" crosscut; 12tpi
1 off 12" crosscut; 12tpi
1 off 10" crosscut; 16tpi

These are suitable for the type of work I generally get involved with - making or restoring furniture.
As a comparison, Veritas small joinery saws come in 14, 16, and 20 tpi; carcase saws 12 and 14tpi. (vary with rip or crosscut). Lie Nielsen saws range from 10, 12, 14, 16 (vary with name and rip or crosscut); and the progressive which is 16 - 9tpi.

Is your list referring to handsaws or to circular saw blades with the fine teeth? I figured you were talking about handsaws.
Yes, it is hard to believe you do not have a saw sharpening shop capable of doing them. Since carbide teeth has come out, it has really changed things.