Cracked grinding wheel

[garypet]

I have the Super Grind 2000, purchased around 8+ years ago and it has been wonderful machine.
Went to use it the other day and noticed a tick, tick, tick sound as I was sharpening a knife.  Stopped machine and inspected the grinding wheel and found a crack right across the face of the wheel.  Now, I don't use the machine all that frequently but I do know that the last time I used it it was fine.  Upon further inspection I found a severely rusted shaft (I have the old nickle plated one), so rusted in fact that it appears to be frozen to the wheel.  The crack runs right down to the shaft.  I can not account for any reason as to why the stone would have cracked other than the build up of rust on the shaft.
Does this sound feasible?  Anyone else ever have this happen? 
I see that Tormek offers an "upgraded shaft", a stainless steel shaft. 
So now I'm looking at $300 worth of parts to bring my machine back to working condition, kind of puts a lump in my throat.

[jeffs55]

That puts a lump in mine as well. It is hard to believe that the rust built up between the shaft and stone to such an extent that it cracked the wheel. Yet, what else is beyond me also. That means that I need to go out and lube the shafts on my machines.

[Mike Fairleigh]

Is there any reason not to put a thin film of grease on the "wet end" of the non-stainless shafts?  It seems that would nearly eliminate the worries about rust.

[Herman Trivilino]

To prevent the build up of rust you have to empty the water trough after every use.  The grindstone wicks up the water and keeps the mainshaft wet.

What size is your broken grindstone?

I had a very similar experience.  You can read about it here: http://forum.tormek.com/index.php?topic=929.0

[garypet]

Thanks for all the responses.  After posting this morning I headed back out to the workshop to see if I could determine the cause for sure.  I took pictures of the whole demolition process and if anyone is interested I'll post them.  By the way, I have the 10 inch (250) wheel.  I was unable to remove the nut from the shaft on the grinding wheel so I took the honing wheel off and was able to pull the stone and shaft out in one piece.  When I examined the wheel I found two more hairline cracks radiating out from the center of the stone but had not reached the outer edge.  I tried in vain to remove the wheel from the shaft, even after the stone broke into three pieces there was still stone stuck to the shaft.  One poster used the term "melded" which  is the best description of the problem.  It took a hammer and chisel to get down to the shaft which of course was heavily corroded. 
So, what caused the shaft to corrode and meld itself to the stone?  Water!  I usually never emptied the water trough, nor did I ever lubricate the bearings.  The maintenance section in the manual talks about leaving water in the trough and says the only potential problem it will cause is uneven wearing of the stone.  It further states that the bearings need no lubrication unless you hear noise and should last 1000 hours.  Actually my bearings look ok.  Bottom line, no warning at all about the checking for corrosion of the shaft.
I would highly recommend that anyone who has an older machine to remove the wheel and check for corrosion.  If you are unsure which shaft you have take a magnet and touch it to the shaft, if it sticks you could have a problem, if it doesn't you're good to go with stainless.
One last thing, if anyone can recommend a good place to buy spare parts I'd be very appreciative.
It's great machine and I wouldn't part with it but in my view it should have had stainless from the get go.  What the hell were they thinking?

[Herman Trivilino]

What was the diameter of your broken stone?  The reason I ask is because I'm trying to get a feel for how much use your machine has gotten.

[garypet]

The wheel measures 9 1/8 inches, I misunderstood your original question, sorry. 
I probably used the stone truing tool 3-4 times, I now think that was necessary due to leaving water in the trough which can cause uneven wear.

[Rhino]

Thanks for sharing.  I guess rust would do it.

I regularly put riveted kitchen knives through the dishwasher and rust develops on the rivets.  The rivets expands after about 5 years of daily use and cracks the handle material.  It's because iron oxide has a larger volume than iron.  Must be something similar happening to you.  Washing knives are a pain so I just replace them after 5-10 years.  The next time, I am going to get the new knives with full tangs but wraparound plastic handles.  I think Hinckle makes those and they should last a lifetime.

[Ken S]

I shuddered when I read your post about putting knives in the dishwasher, especially when you know it causes the rivets to rust.  If washing knives is a pain, why not switch to disposable plastic and/or hamburger?

My Henckel knives have been only hand washed and are in excellent condition after more than twenty years.  Sorry if I sound preachy. 

Ken

[Rhino]

You are absolutely right, of course, about not putting knives in dishwashers.  It ruins them.  I agree with you.

Just sharing my life for your amusement.  With my job and kids, I have to keep an eye on efficiency.  I have a working kitchen - multiple people use the equipment keeping them pristine is hard.  I like good professional cookware so the best I can say is I have a quality working kitchen like a restaurant.  The stuff is a bit banged up.  The Wustohfs and all clads survive wonderfully.  Considering the abuse they endure, they are worth every penny and take abuse well.  Everyone in my family (including me) can cook.  And when they occasionally burn a pan or pot, I don't get mad. I use a wet sanding block on the stainless pots.  It brings them back to shiny stainless steel in 5 minutes.  It is a bit scratched, of course.

I take good care of my chisels, my outdoor knives and woodworking edged instruments.  That's a hobby.

We all live differently and I respect your opinion as good counsel.

[Ken S]

Rhino, lest you think I am piously sitting in an ivory tower, I have dulled more than a few wood bits drilling holes in masonry in my years as a telephone man.  I knew full well it was tool abuse, but for one reason or another, the proper tool was broken or unavailable and the job need to be completed.  Chisels are occasionally "volumteered" for duty "above and beyond".  I try to do this only rarely and as gently as possible, but it does happen.  (Maybe the inventor of the butt chisel was like that!)

I have the luxury (most of the time) of being the only one who uses my knives.  I do the chopping and my wife does the cooking.  She occasionally chops things, however, she is careful.  Actually, I'm surprised that any tools survive in community kitchens or workshops!

I remember reading in James Beard that one should treat the knives as well as the good silver, that they were at least as valuable.  I'm not into silver, however, my Henckel knives have been a joy to use.  Yes, they have one piece plastic handles and nice sturdy bolsters.  My one complaint, which can be user corrected, is that the back edges have sharp corners. I rounded the corners a bit, which helps.  However, the chef's knife still hurts my hands a bit and needs another rounding treatment.

Good tip about using a wet sanding block on your pans.......But I don't think any of the gourmet magazines would publish it!

Ken

ps Check out Ron Hock's book, The Perfect Edge and Leonard Lee's Sharpening book.  They both have good sections on knife sharpening.  Ron even covers thinning the bolster and reshaping the curve of the knife. 

[jeffs55]

I would never consider using an abrasive such as sand paper on a sanding block on my All Clad or no clad for that matter. If you burn something onto the pan/pot, use Bon Ami and a scouring pad and plenty of muscle. Good grief, knives in a dishwasher! Not even my genuine Ron Popeil cutlery goes in the dishwasher. You know the kind where that guy slashes a pineapple effortlessly in half.

[Rhino]

Jeffs55,

I respect your opinion and respectfully submit my thinking. 

The wet sanding block on all clad is really not such a bad idea for a number or reasons.  First, you don't have to use 110 grid paper.  You use the grid right above buffing.  You can always buff it out if it ever comes to that.  The pots and pans do not look like they are scratched.  They look shinely.  Just if you hold it in your hand and look closely, it is not a mirror finish.  The insides of all clads do not have a shinely finish anyway.  Also, I don't sandpaper everywhere for fun.  You just sandpaper the burnt parts (on the inside or on the outside) and sand the parts that don't look like a totally cleaned surface.  A pan with black burnt on food is ruined in terms of looks anyway.  It will never look brand new again without a lot of polish.  I rather have a shinely pot.  My friends have dark streaked pots and they always say they will properly scoured it one day.  You can use bon ami for an hour and still not get it as clean as a sponged based wet sanding block with ultra fine sanding paper.  And, also, luckily for me, my kids always burn the same pots.  The stock pots holds too much stuff to burn and the frying pans are always watched and never burns.  It is usually the 1 qt and 2qt pots that burns so only a few pieces of cookware gets the sandpaper treatment.  I never threw away a pot due to too much sandpaper treatment.

As for the other stuff like kitchen knives, it all depends on how you value your time and money.  I feel that in my kitchen, the stuff has to be turned around for the next meal.  The steel of the Wustoft knives are really good quality even after 2000 washes (6 to 8 years of dishwashers).  They are very sharp from the Tormek.  Whatever change in the quality of the steel is acceptable to me.  I recommend the knives to everyone. 

[Herman Trivilino]

The wheel measures 9 1/8 inches, I misunderstood your original question, sorry. 

That's not much wear!

I probably used the stone truing tool 3-4 times, I now think that was necessary due to leaving water in the trough which can cause uneven wear.

I've yet to use the truing tool on the replacement stone I bought two years ago.  I don't see how leaving water in the trough could cause unevenwear on the grindstone.

[garypet]

No, not much wear at all, I figured I had at least inch of wear left before I had to pony up for a new one. 
As for the uneven wear I can't say for sure what caused that but in my manual's Maintenance section there is the following statement; "If using the natural sandstone wheel, lower the water trough after grinding so that the stone does not remain in water.  Otherwise, the lower part of the stone will become soft and wear irregularly."
That's where I got that idea from.