wheel storage

[Ken S]

When I get settled into my new workshop, I plan to build a work station for my Tormek.  I have the DVD and measured drawing for Norm Abram's design.  I plan to use that as a starting point.

Norm's design was made before multiple grinding wheels were available.  I have the SB and SJ wheels.  I am wondering how they should be stored in the work station.  Horizontally or vertically?  Should any procedures be followed to allow them to dry after use?

Thanks in advance for your suggestions.

Ken

[Mike Fairleigh]

Since no one else has answered I'll throw out my thoughts for what they're worth.  I would want to have the ability to change wheels without having to stop my work or worry about anything being damaged by dripping water.  I would want the wheel to be stored vertically.  So, I would consider some type of peg or hook on the side of the sharpening station where a wet wheel could be hung with some kind of container below it or perhaps even a kind of funnel with a drain tube connected if you have a floor drain nearby.  I would want the peg to be stainless steel and for the wheel to be held away from any wood or other material that could be damaged by repeated exposure to water.  Maybe a 1/2" stainless threaded rod or bolt, with a stainless washer & nut to act as a standoff to keep the wheel away from the structure.  Then take an empty gallon jug, cut the top half off, and mount that upside down under the wheel to catch water.

Hope any of that makes sense. 

[Ken S]

Mike, thanks for your thoughts.

I don't think Tormek has really addressed this issue.  That may be because the interchangeable wheels are a fairly new addition to the system.  And/or because many of the specialized wheel users may not change wheels very often.  For example, a turner using high speed steel tools might just leave the SB wheel on the machine. A carver might just leave the SJ wheel in place and "refresh" sharpen often.

Like you, I am leaning toward vertical storage.  I know it's overkill, however, I happen to have the older Tormek water trough and stainless steel shaft in my Tormek accessories/spare parts box.  I don't remember if the EZYlock shaft replacement kit included a new washer or not.  The stainless nut would certainly work with a hardware store stainless metric bolt.  (I'm not losing my memory; my Tormek is 150 miles away from my computer.  I'm in the process of moving.) A half inch bolt would work fine, too. The water trough is perfectly sized, although part of a quart plastic bottle or something similar recycled from the kitchen would work just as well.  Changing wheels would mean changing the water in the trough.  A very short "spin cycle" without water should mostly dry out the wheel.

I don't think I would be doing much "on the fly" changing between the standard wheel and the SB.  Sharpening my jointer or Lion trimmer blades is more of a separate activity. Likewise with sharpening a dozen drill bits.  If I needed to touch up one drill bit mid project, I don't think I would bother changing the wheel.

The SJ wheel was a very recent purchase at a rare bargain price.  Time will tell if it replaces my old fine grit water stones. I don't think I would change wheels mid project to resharpen a single chisel.  The leather honing wheel seems more efficient for that.  I would be more apt to change to the SJ wheel after sharpening several chisels and perhaps a couple plane blades.  This would be an end of the day or end of the project chore.  I set the wheel distance and vary the blade projection to change bevel angles.  I would sharpen all the blades with the regular wheel before switching wheels for honing.

Ken

[Mike Fairleigh]

Good thoughts, Ken.  I think, when the time comes to build a station of my own, the guiding philosophy will be to design it so that it will never dictate what I can do or when or in what order.  It might be rare that I would want to do "X," but I don't want my station to prevent me from doing it.

Whatever you come up with, I hope you'll post some pics of it; dedicated sharpening stations are one of the few things in the woodworking world that don't seem to get much attention. 

A real Lion trimmer, eh?  Awesome. 

[Jeff Farris]

You guys sound like you're on the right track, but I would urge you to investigate just how much water actually drips from a saturated wheel. It's not much. The stone will wick almost all the water and dry through evaporation, rather than drainage.

Vertical storage is a great idea. I will add that based on my experience, you don't want to put it in a closed space. On the other hand, it's more protected from collision and dust in a closed space.  Maybe the answer is a drying rack, and then transfer to a protected space.

Dunno....just brainstorming.

[Ken S]

Good thoughts, Mike and Jeff.

Mike, with my move situation, you are much closer to your Tormek now than I am.  The next time you use it, would you please note how much, if any, water drips into the dry trough after you are finished and clean the trough?  Please post your results.  That should answer that question.

I think the real concern is not so much dripping water as being sure the wheel does not remain damp.

Another thought related to your comment, Mike:  I agree with you about not wanting the work station to be a constraint.  In just the three years since I purchased my Tormek, i have added the improved shaft and water trough; the drill bit jig; and revolving base to the items which were available at purchase time.  I don't remember when the two extra wheels were first introduced.  Among the extra "stuff" acculmuted are an extra SE-76 and extra older chisel jig and Torlock related to ideas inspired by posts with Ionut. This is a long way to say I will allow plenty of space for future growth in the work station.

Jeff, you have posted about how you built your station, inspired by your visit with Norm Abram.  (i have the CD and measured drawing for that.  It's a great starting design.)  I also get the impression you are a staunch user of the original wheel.  Do you use the extra wheels, and, if so, how do you store them?

One quik thought about drying a wheel:  I would think a very short time running the machine with the wheel attached dry would help force most of the dampness out.  Thoughts?

Are the other regulars still on extended vacations?  How about some thoughts, guys.

Ken

[Mike Fairleigh]

Ken, I'll try to get some sort of measurement over the next week or so (everything's sharp at the moment  ) of how much to expect the standard wheel to drip.  My comments above were based on the fact that getting a completely dry wheel saturated takes a fair amount of water; so if you wanted to take a completely saturated wheel off and hang it to dry without letting it drain off into the water tray first (i.e., "a quick wheel change"), I would think a lot would drain out of it.  But Jeff's thoughts are the bible here, not mine. 

[RobinW]

On a slightly different slant to wheel storage, in my situation the Tormek gets used in fits and starts,  I have wondered whether to take the wheel off when a period of idle time is coming, and whether to store wet or dry.

But my main query is, if the wheel is left on the machine, will constant static load on the shaft bush due to the weight of the wheel, cause the shaft bush to distort or suffer the equivalent of Brinelling?

(Brinelling - distortion or deterioration due to static load usually in ball or roller bearings. From my own experience, I know when we had motors in storage awaiting system commissioning, to prevent Brinelling, we would crank the shafts over by hand and ensure that the shafts stopped at a different angle each time.)

Any comments on long term static loads on the bushes?

[Mike Fairleigh]

I'm not a Tormek expert, but I've had my bushings off for a close look.  They're a hard nylon and I wouldn't expect the weight of the wheel to be nearly enough to do them any damage.  But I'll wait for Jeff to chime in. 

[Ken S]

Robin, good thought about the Brinnelling.

Herman might have a comment about one of the possible "side effects" of removing the wheel. (his wheel broke.)

The EZYlock makes removing the wheel effortless.  That would be a good argument for removal, whether or not the the Brinnell effect actually effected the Tormek in real life. The fly in the ointment might (or might not) be relocating the "sweet spot" when remounting the wheel.  Jeff has posted that even before the EZYlock he used to remove the wheel before travelling.  Hopefully he will have a comment.

Mike, I think this question is worthy of a little experimental time.  (I will be away from my Tormek for another few days with my move.)  Bathroom scales seem much more accurate in recent years.  I would be curious to know if there is an easily measurable weight difference between a wet wheel and a dry wheel.  Such a weight difference in itself would not be significant.  However, it might indicate the amount of the drying effect of running the wheel without water briefly to allow centrifugal force to work.

I have no idea without trying it, however, the next time I use the Tormek, I will put the Ohm meter across it dry and wet to see if there is any change in electrical resistance.  That's the method used with moisture meters for wood  and lie detectors.  Perhaps someone from the engineering department in Sweden might chime in.

Ken

[Herman Trivilino]

My wheel broke after it had been left attached to the machine for several years.  On the original shaft, which was not stainless.

There is no dripping from a wet wheel.  If you just wipe it with a towel after removing it, there'll be no drips.  The water is wicked into the stone and will evaporate out.

There is no doubt that a wet stone weighs more.  If you start with a dry stone and fill the water tray, you'll notice that a lot of water gets absorbed, and you have to fill the tray again within just a few minutes.

I'd estimate about a half liter, which weighs 0.5 kg, or about one pound!  That's a not a significant fraction of the total stone weight.

[RobinW]

Just to support Herman's comments, I have just done a brief experiment with my SG wheel (diameter 246mm; 9.68 inch).

Weight dry 4.995kg (  10.98lb for the imperialists!)
After adding water, sunning for 30 mins and tickling up a couple of turning gouges)
Weight wet 5.7 kg (  12.54lb)

After removing water tray, wiping the wheel once and leaving for an hour there were no drips, and to the hand the underside felt the same as the rest of the wheel ie no drips about to drop.

[Ken S]

Well done, Herman and Robin.  Tormek AB seems responsive to customer needs.  The revolving base which came with my new unit seems cleverly designed and well manufactured.  The stainless steel EZYlock shaft is certainly an improvement.  Perhaps Tormek will manufacture a rugged plastic holder to secure the wheel safely when not in use.  It could provide adequate air space and ventilation to keep the wheel dry and also provide dust protection. 

Thanks for the responses.

Ken

[chino]

Sorry to bring this one up from the past. I couldn't find answers through a search.

Question: how do you store your extra wheels for your Tormek?
Most input is vertically. I've read about "lipped" plastic trays. Any links for purchasing?

I'm thinking about attaching a stainless bolt surrounded by pvc pipe to mount the wheel (still don't know where).

I welcome any input. Thanks in advance.

[RichColvin]

Chino,

I store my vertically.  The ideas I've collected are here:  http://sharpeninghandbook.info/Grindstones-Storing.html

Good luck.
Rich