removing difficult Phillips screws

[Ken S]

I want to move two upper cabinets from my laundry room to the basement.  Each cabinet is secured to the wall with three Phillips head screws.  My standard Phillips screwdriver won't budge them.  My 18 volt drill/driver removed one part way, while partially destroying the screw head.

I needed a good "plan B".

I tried Lowe's and Home Depot without success.  Finally I tried Sears.  I wanted a Phillips #2 screwdriver on the front and a 3/8" square drive for a socket wrench on the back end.  Sears carries them.  It should give me the leverage to remove the screws without camming them out.

Ken

[Jeff Farris]

Ken,

If it gets worse, there are some nifty little devices that have a coarse, left hand thread cut in them. They bite into the spun-out head and back it out.  Google "screw removal" and you'll find them.

[Ken S]

Good thought, Jeff.  It was nice to know I had more than one way to remove the screws.  As it turned out, the Sears #2 Phillips to 3?8" square drive worked very well.  I carefully loosened the screws by applying gentle but firm torque with a non ratcheting handle.  Then the ratchet did the rest. NO batteries required.

I plan to rehang the cabinets in my workshop.  I will pre-drill screw holes, and use some paraffin on the threads.  I would guess it's even money as to whether I will eventually relocate the cabinets.  I want to be kind the the next guy, as it will most likely be me.

I also plan to place a ledger strip beneath the cabinets.  This strip will hold them in place while I am securing them, and add a lot of strength.  In a workshop they may be loaded heavily.  The extra support will be useful.

Thanks for your reply, Jeff.

Ken

[ironduke]

While re-hanging, it's a  good time to really improve the cabinet carcase structure for the newer heavy loads.  I'm sure you know how to do this, by inserting plywood stiffeners in the back, using really strong lag screws and steel washers for hanging, etc.  Some attention to the shelves (bracing and cleats) and the base might be good to have, and some angle brackets too.  (Lesson from life for me...those planes, etc. are much heavier than Mom's china.)

Jeff's reference is to an "Easy-Out" tool. 

[Ken S]

Excellent suggestions, Ironduke.  My only regret is that you did not post them in May.  i would certainly have incorporated some or all of them in rehanging the cupboards.  The cupboards have been rehung in the basement for several weeks.  Wanting to have them more secure, I mounted them on a ledger strip securely screwed into the studs.  They hold my woodworking library, which is heavy.  Any future cupboards will be beefed up with your suggetions.  Should these come loose, they will be, also.

Thanks for your ideas.

Ken

[Rhino]

I am late to the talk.  For removing stripped screws, I use an impact driver.  They make electric impact screw drivers now.  I don't know the physics of it but they can torque screws really well without damaging the screw head.  Or they can drive even a damaged and stripped screw head.  I don't know how it is done but it works.

[Ken S]

Good thought, Rhino.  I have been frustrated with drill/drivers camming out.  An impact driver is definitely on my radar. 

Recently I have started using Robertson square drive screws.  They seem a little less likely to cam out.  I think the combination of square drive and an impact driver would be just the ticket.

Ken 

[Jeff Farris]

...
I think the combination of square drive and an impact driver would be just the ticket.

Ken

It is what I use.

[Ken S]

Thanks, Jeff.  I don't know why the square drive isn't more popular.  The manual screwdrivers and bits are certainly available and not overpriced.  (I even have one of those "four in one" drivers with different sizes of square drive.)  Lee Valley sells a nice package of all sizes in different lengths for around ten dollars which should cover the water front with power tools.

I recently bought hundred packs of screws in three lengths.  While the square head (or Phillips) might look odd on a reproduction piece, it isn't a problem for most of what I would do.  It does a fine job of securing a Closetmaid vertical support or a shelf bracket to a stud.

I am leaning toward a 12 volt impact driver instead of the larger and more powerful 18 or 20 volt models.  I am not planning any industrial strength projects, and the lighter tool should work very well.  The milwaukee 12 volt lithium ion driver seems a good choice.  Anyone on the forum use one, or have other suggestions?

Ken 

[Jeff Farris]

Without getting into a "Ford vs. Chevy" debate, on a subject completely off topic to the forum....

I have a Bosch 12V that has served me faithfully for ten years or so. I also have a Makita that is just as good as the Bosch, but I have had to have the batteries rebuilt for it twice, while the original Bosch batteries still take and hold a charge, even when they sit unused for months at a time.

Why do I have two?  When I did shows every week, I had one on the road and one at home.

[Ken S]

Thanks for your thoughts, Jeff. I agree about a "ford vs chevy" being inappropriate for this forum. 

Over the years, except for drill/drivers, I'm a "plug and play" person. I like the convenience of plugging a tool into an AC receptacle and pulling the trigger switch. For many years I used a Makita 9.6 volt drill at work (telephone).  It served me faithfully even though pushed to its limits and beyond.  When the company switched to 18 volt drills, the old Makita served me for many more years at home.What finally was dying was the batteries, not the drill.  In the midst of paring down to move, I gave the drill away.  Since then, I have used a lot of screwdrivers, much to the dislike of my wrist.

My old batteries were ni cads.  I'm really behind the times with battery knowledge.  My main source of current information has been a couple conversations with a Milwaukee rep.  Naturally he had a brand preference.  Over the years I have noticed friends in the trades using all different brands of tools.   I suspect there aren't too many bad battery tools being made and that most of us buy tools, like vehicles by habit.

In my case, I believe the lighter weight of the 12 volt tools would be more useful than the greater torque and bulk of the 18 or larger sizes.  The impact driver technology seems a significant improvement over the old drill/driver.  The lithium ion batteries would seem to hold a charge much longer than the older ni cad technology.  Unlike my ancient ni cads, I think new, fully charged lith ion batteries would at least outlast the operator.

The old 9.6 drills might have seemed to have more power if I had a tormek drill bit jig available then.  i was one of the very few who actually resharpened the long bell hanger bits. I used a file for that. Then again, I generally used them in a brace......

Ken

[Ken S]

Just a quick follow up to my original post:  Today at my local "big box store" I found a 3/8" drive 1/4" six point socket.  With the socket on a ratchet or non ratchet handle and a short hex bit in the socket, for three bucks I now have a high leverage tool which can remove or tighten all kinds of fasteners.  One hand pushes against the socket, the other gradually applies torque.  I wouldn't want to install or remove a whole kitchen this way, but for the odd stuck screw it does the trick quite nicely at low cost and little chance of camming out.

Ken

[GeekGirl]

Hi, Not wanting to add to a "Ford Vs Holden" (this is the Australian GM company).

I believe in Horses for Courses . I use Bosch and Dewalt cordless tools.

I have a small 10.8V driver (1/4 hex shaft), I use a Bosch 36V rotary hammer for drilling holes up to 26mm through brick and concrete (standard bits, hollow core bits for brick I go up to ~80mm)

Then for a drill driver, impact driver, angle grinder, Jig saw, Circular saw, compact fluro light are all Dewalt 18V XRP (the older battery pack) These have served me well for over 3 years

I have Makita corded tools, Trition 235mm Saw .......

I look at the tools that will fit the needs, not worrying about the Brand *** Apart from Cordless, as I have a few battery packs and a charger, so I can just buy bare skins as I need a new tool


Kat.

[Ken S]

Good thoughts, Kat.

I think most of us probably choose the brands of our tools by custom or convenience, and maybe perceived prestige.  My fondness for Milwaukee began about thirty years ago when my company issued me the 9.6 cordless Makita drill/driver.  It was a very nice tool within its limits.  Unfortunately I often had to drill 5/8" holes through log cabin beams or cinderblocks, things well beyond the cordless capabilities.  I purchased a 1/2" Milwaukee Magnum corded drill.  It never let me down, on the job or at home. 

At the time I also owned shares of stock in Pantair Co, the then parent company of Delta and Porter Cable.  I was fortunate to have local dealers in all three brands.  Since then all three brands have changed ownership.  I have also become more aware of some very fine tools by other manufacturers. 

After losing several old favorite power tools during a break in of my home, I replaced some like for like.  This group included my Tormek, the Milwaukee drill and circular saw and Dewalt 621 plunge router. The Tormek and Dewalt router were new replacements; the Milwaukee tools were "vintage" bought on ebay.

I probably won't replace the stolen screw gun. I'm not sure about replacing the power miter saw. (I also have a sliding compound saw which was on loan and not stolen.  Sadly it is no longer manufactured (10" Milwaukee)  It is a very nice saw, and simple enough in design to be easily kept in very good alignment.

The missing tools have made me rethink my work methods.  I need to rip some old pine closet shelving into trim to cover the top of a drywall partition in my shop.  (The floor above had a hump which needed to be repaired, so I removed a slot of the drywall.)  My former circular saw had a ripping guide.  The replacement does not.  I could use a temporary wooden fence, but have decided to do the ripping on the bandsaw.  it will be very safe, and, with a few strokes of the jack and jointer planes, it will be a smooth cut.

For the first time in my life I now have a dedicated workshop area.  I don't really need "cordless", although no one seems to be making some of the tools in corded models.  i also plan to do more furniture building and other grandfatherly projects instead of the remodeling I did for many years.  So, my tool needs are evolving.

By the way, your hammer drill sounds like quite a major league heavy duty tool!  I once made a nine inch diameter hole in the concrete slab of my former house for a drain in my darkroom.  My Milwaukee Magnum drill handled it, one quarter inch hole after another many times.  Your hammer drill would have done it in a fraction of the time and effort. (Fortunately, I have no plans for any further such large holes.)

Ken

[nobby1967]

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